[Celso Machado at the Regina Folk Festival Gala Dec. 5, 2009 (CBC Radio 2)]
Celso Machado is an Afro-Brazilian classical guitarist and composer whose biography has been a feature of AfriClassical.com for many years. His concerts and awards have been covered in numerous posts at AfriClassical Blog. AfriClassical interviewed Celso Machado by telephone call to his home near Vancouver, British Columbia on May 17, 2010:
Hello, this is Bill Zick; this must be Celso Machado!
Yes, hey, how are you!
Fine! It's a real opportunity to speak with you after writing about you for all these years!
Yes! Thanks so much for your support!
Oh, you're more than welcome! You are one of 3 guitarists of African descent we are following, the others being Leo Brouwer and Justin Holland. I understand that you just completed a very busy week at the Brazilian Music Institute at the University of Florida?
Exactly, at Gainesville!
Would you like to tell me a little bit about what you did last week?
Last week I worked with some students who participated in the Brazilian Music Institute, for Guitar, Percussion and Voice. I told them about my experience with Brazilian rhythm. I taught them some basic Brazilian rhythms and some more complex forms of rhythm from Brazilian Music. I worked in the morning with guitar and the afternoon with percussion. Those are different groups.
Are these called master classes, or is that something else?
We could call them master classes, but I prefer to work with a guitar group of around 8 people. It is actually a pretty good number. Sometimes I work with many more than that, even 15 or 20 people...
Really?
Yes! Normally in master classes that I have experienced, a teacher comes to the room and picks one person at a time.
Oh, I see the difference!
The difference is I don't really necessarily like to work in that format, because while you work with one person, the other 7 will watch. It depends how much time that is going to take. Maybe the other 7 are going to fall asleep or something like that! I don't think that's a good idea to work individually. Basically, if I am in the room with maybe 15, 20 or however many people, I prefer to make everyone play together at the same time.
Really!
Yes, that's the way I like to work because like this, nobody is just waiting for their turn. And also I found sometimes in master classes, some students, depending on the situation, got a little bit intimidated, sometimes they got shy because they had to show something in front of everybody.
They couldn't perform in their normal way then?
Yes, exactly! It's kind of hard to have to sit in front of the teacher and all these students and show some music you are working on. Sometimes the teacher is going to give them a comment, "Oh, this is good; this is not good." Sometimes they get nervous or shy. The way that I like to work, I have created my own way to teach Brazilian rhythm, the basic part of the music. If I write something on the board, some sort of a blackboard, I use my own symbols that are very easy to read. You don't have to read music. It's just something I created myself, and everybody can play that! It is so easy to do, and everybody gets excited while they play together at the same time, and enjoying it too, because it's good!
It sounds like you get some good participation?
Yes, it's good that you get good participation, and everybody will play. The most important thing is to balance the level. Sometimes when you mix two or three different levels that becomes a little more difficult. Sometimes I prefer to work only with the beginners, or only work with the advanced, someone on the same level. If you mix the levels, it makes it more difficult for the other people to play. Sometimes the people are much more diverse, they think they need something more sophisticated, more accomplished. One person had a little bit less ability than the others, but even so, he was still able to do what I was showing him, so it was not very much of a problem for him.
If I could back up just a little bit, I know the basic facts, but I'd like to flesh them out a little bit. I understand you were born in Ribeiro Preto, Brazil?
Yes, that is correct.
Is that in Sao Paulo State?
Exactly. North of the capital, Sao Paulo City.
How far is Ribeiro Preto from Sao Paulo City?
Probably somewhere around 350 kilometers.
Oh, you are quite a distance then!
Yes, in Brazil when you talk about 300 kilometers, that is about four hours drive by car to Sao Paulo, the capital.
You were in Sao Paulo State but quite a bit removed from the central city!
Exactly. I have not been there very much time, just my childhood until I was 12 years old.
Did your parents die?
My parents died. When I was almost 2 years old, that was when my father passed away. I barely remember my father. My mother died in 1965 when I was age 12.
Is that when your lifestyle changed?
Exactly.
You are the second youngest of six brothers?
Exactly. My brother Carlinhos is two years younger.
What did your brother do after the death of your parents?
For one year I stayed with my Aunt and Grandmother. From 1966-1970, my brother Carlinhos and I lived with my brother, Benedito, and his wife and kids. We lived in various towns in the interior. He used to work in a dance band, and they traveled from town to town to perform for people to dance. He was a guitarist. Sometimes he played in a big band as well. In the band he played guitar. He is the one who taught all of us to play music. He taught my older brother, two years older than me, and...
Which brother was the oldest one?
The oldest is Benedito. He taught Sergio, who has a nickname, Filo. And Filo taught me guitar, and Benedito taught me a lot as well. I taught my younger brother the very first chord.
What's his name?
Carlinhos.
He's the one who played with you, isn't he?
Yes, he plays with me quite often. He plays electrical guitar, more like a Brazilian jazz style. Filo plays accoustical guitar, electric guitar, piano, and bass and he is a percussionist as well. He is a senior composer. He composes a lot of stuff, good musical things required by people who are well-known. He has a lot of well-known people performing on his album. He did some jam sessions before in France, once with Jon Hendrix.
Really!
Yes. He accompanied once when Jon Hendrix sang No More Blues. My brother went there with a guitar and joined him. Carlinhos had a very, very important moment in his career many years ago when I first came to Canada in 1986 to perform for the Jazz Festival. We did a quick stop in Winnipeg, and that night we decided to go out. There was a trio performing, The Herb Ellis Jazz Trio. Do you know Herb Ellis?
No.
He's a very famous jazz guitar player, and Carlinhos played guitar with him. He just died, not long ago. Every one of the brothers had a different style, but at the same time we always got together and played songs that everybody knows.
When did you actually settle in Canada?
1988 basically. I became a Landed Immigrant in 1990.
You spent a number of years in France, didn't you?
Yes, but basically my international career started in London, in England.
When was that?
It was 1983. I was invited for the Festival of Brazil.
So you were 30 years old?
Yes.
Did you get the feeling that you were going to do that type of playing?
I got the feeling that I was going to stay a very long time without coming back to Brazil, because I had a ticket for one month and a half, and I lost the return ticket and I stayed in Europe for almost two years.
Did you have a lot of work to do?
In 1982, a year before I left Brazil, I met a French guitarist, Thierry Rougier. Do you know his name?
I don't recognize it.
He is a very, very great guitar player and he lives near Toulouse. He knew I was in London. He asked if I wanted to come to visit him in France. He came a long way; he lives in the South near the Toulouse area, to meet me in Paris, by car. So after that we went down to near Toulouse again. From there he started to introduce me to a lot of interesting people who organize guitar festivals. I started to know all those people. Also, in 1985, we recorded a vinyl album for classical guitar, Imagens do Nordeste, together as a duo. In 1983 I left Brazil just by myself.
How did things develop from there?
Things developed very well because he introduced me to the International Guitar Seminar of that Bordeaux area. They decided to go to Paris to talk with the publisher Henri Lemoine.
They published your music, didn't they?
Exactly. I was published under the Festival International de guitare de Mérignac, near Bordeaux. He likes the Brazilian music that I was writing. In the evening, Rougier helped me to write all of my music. I had never written music as a composer, but his knowledge of music was so wide that I could sit around the table and play all those pieces. He just put all the score on the paper! Just by listening!
He could pick it up by ear?
He just listened to me, once in a while he asked me to repeat an unusual chord or something more complicated. Otherwise, I just played, very slowly, and he wrote all the music, like he was writing a letter!
Really!
After that I have never really seen anyone doing this. Even today, people compose music using something like the Finale Music Composing program.
I think this book of your music that they published translates in English to Brazilian Popular Music for Flute and Guitar?
Exactly. It was much faster for me to play than for him to write. I was composing quite a lot because I knew he could help me to do it. I can write it myself but it takes a little bit more time. Because it was just two of us there it was so easy. I would say "Oh Thierry, I composed this piece; listen." And he listened and said, okay, let's put it down on paper."
How many years did you stay in France?
I came in 1985 and I left in 1990. Between those years, in 1986 I came to Canada, from France. That was the first time I came to Canada. My brother just flew from Brazil in 1985 to join me there. In '86 we shuttled between France and Italy. So I flew from France to Canada in '86, after I came back it was just for a few weeks or a month in Canada. I went back to France again. So basically I stayed there from 1984 to early 1990.
So it was over 5 years?
Yes. Like today, I still keep on coming back to France very often.
You are part of AccentAlberta.ca for French presenters in Alberta, I understand?
Yes.
You have to be solidly French to be part of that, don't you?
Yes, because I speak it. I just finished a tour of 3 weeks in the East of Canada. It was a school like a French immersion program in New Brunswick.
Is that the place where they were opening a community center?
Exactly. They were celebrating Samuel Champlain at the community center. It was an anniversary of the center.
It was a center for people with the French culture, wasn't it?
Exactly. That was in Moncton.
And that's New Brunswick?
New Brunswick, exactly.
Didn't you get the Canadian Folk Festival Award in Eastern Canada, in Newfoundland?
Exactly, but I couldn't go because it was quite far.
It is about 8,000 miles, isn't it?
Yes.
How did your career develop when you settled in Canada in '88 and '89?
Canada was sort of a base for me, to make it really easy to travel to other countries, to the States and also to Europe. In my career I just basically performed almost all the many, many folk festivals in Canada.
I believe you wrote a piece for a guitar group called the Zagreb Guitar Quartet?
Yes.
What did you write for them?
I wrote an adaptation of a piece I have for 8 guitars.
Is that Folguedo?
Exactly. I had to adapt to a version for 4 guitars because I knew they were such great guitarists. So I made this version for them, and they asked me "Did you like the performance?"
They played it at a festival, didn't they?
Yes.
Did you say they recorded it?
I am not sure if they recorded it because the only thing I got was a live recording.
I read that it got attention in the guitar world?
Yes, those guys can really, really play. The interesting thing for them is that if you write a piece of music you don't get any surprises! Very often, people have different ideas of how the music should be, the interpretation. They really read my mind on what I would like to hear in that piece!
Is that right!
It's very amazing how they can get really so close to the way that I feel about the music! When I listen to the music, that feels right! That's what it is!
That's excellent!
It's very, very good! I am not sure they are going to publish that version. It's already been published for 8 guitars. That is music that is very special for them! No one else has that piece to perform.
Do you think you will write any more music that they will play?
I have some other stuff that I would like to send to them, but it seems they are busy working on other pieces. Right now I haven't proposed anything, but I am pretty sure I am going to send some things.
I have noticed number of other classical guitarists who played your work and several of them recorded it, at least a dozen?
Well right now there are lots of guitarists, especially now because I just finished a very big Barroco [Baroque] guitar composition for solo guitar.
You just released it?
No, I just finished composing it. It is going to be released very soon, I am just waiting for the final approval. It has to be checked.
Can we talk about it, or is it still to be kept quiet?
No, no I am glad to talk about that because this is the first time they have really tried to release my Baroque work! I lived in Europe for many years, like between France and Italy, and I was inspired every time I was traveling, with all the medieval towns and all the architecture. I was listening to Italian Baroque composers like Scarlatti and Baldassare Galuppi and I was getting inspired. I composed all those pieces over the years.
What did you call it, Barroco?
Brazilian Music With Baroque Inspiration is what I will call the published book. My whole career I have been fascinated by Barroco Music. I still feel that sparked my composing since that time. I am not following any rules about Barroco Music. If it feels good to me, like it touches my heart emotionally, if it has very good harmony and has good things melodically, I don't necessarily compose these pieces theoretically; I compose them emotionally. Not with my head, with my brain; I am just inspired with my heart!
I wanted to mention a 2009 recording that was made with your music on it called Asturias: The Spirit of Spain, by Guitar Trek on ABC Classics?
I am not familiar with that.
It has Danças populares Brasileiras...
Okay.
And Modinha Brasileira?
Yes.
Cateretê?
Yes!
And X-o-t-e?
Xote [Pronounced "Shaw-te"]
Popular Dance of the Northeast?
Yes!
The name of the group is Guitar Trek and the label is ABC Classics. Do you want the number?
Yes.
It's ABC Classics 4763389 and it is a 2009 release. It is sold at Amazon.com.
Okay, that's good.
The previous year a guitarist named Scott Wolf recorded Caro Amigo Gudin?
I don't know that one!
The name of the album is Un Viaje al Sur [A Journey to the South]: Latin American Music for Solo Guitar.
Okay.
Scott Wolf has his own label, that was in 2008.
Okay.
One other 2008 CD was Michel Tirabosco?
Michel Tirabosco. He plays pan flute, he's very good! He's an amazing musician!
He can play your guitar music on pan flute?
Yes, he's a great musician! I saw him on YouTube!
Now that you mention YouTube, 548 YouTube videos have your music in them!
It's amazing! Even when I go to the YouTube pages of Alexandria, Egypt and at the Conservatory in Alexandria, they play some of my music there!
Is that right! That must give you some feeling!
Oh yes! It makes me want to continue to write good music! That's when I get very inspired to write more music, because I love it! People really like to perform it; that's good!
I found an Australian CD from 2006 on the Tall Poppies label, where they played the oboe, called Romancing the Oboe?
Yes!
Most of the other ones that I saw are just mentioning guitar, but some mention the flute as well.
Yes. I am going to have to spend quite a bit of time to see all of the stuff. It's amazing!
There is a duo of women guitarists called Similia who recorded your Musique populaire brasilienne: Paçoca?
Duo Similia!
Yes, that was on Analekta?
Yes, I know them personally!
You do?
Yes, we worked together in Toronto a few years ago. They are very good friends of mine!
I have seen your name in Festivals in Toronto in various parts of the City. What would you like to tell our readers about your CDs or the music that you have been writing?
The important thing for people to know is that my whole reason for writing music is that I know there are a lot of people who like the kind of music I write. I like to get inspired to write good things that people can easily listen to. My music is not very complicated music. I write things from my heart! That is the whole reason I write; when the people listen to the music, they feel something! I am influenced by other cultures; it's not only Brazil, I am traveling all over the world and I communicate my message out there.
How much of the year do you travel, Celso?
You know I haven't sat down to figure it out, but I would say at least 4 or 5 months.
Is that right!
Europe, I go at least twice a year. This year I have already been once, and I am going in less than two weeks, and I am coming back home and a month later I am going back again. So this year is already going to be 3 times.
Where are you going next?
Next I am going near Bordeaux, to a town called Mont de Marsan. This is very close to Spain. There will be a Brazilian Festival there.
I am not surprised they invited you!
Yes, that's going to be with my brother, Carlinhos.
I imagine you enjoy that!
Yes, that will be wonderful!
Are there a lot of Afro-Brazilian guitar players?
Some that I know are in Sao Paulo, I know some in Europe, Madagascar, and Algeria. Sometimes I have met people at guitar festivals, sometimes people who have not been well known.
Did you ever meet Leo Brouwer?
Not personally.
Some of your music is on the same CD with a work of his, isn't it?
Yes.
People must consider the music to have something in common?
Yes, there is.
Can you think of anything else that you would like to say for our readers?
I think it's very important people are really discovering Brazilian Music, especially now there are so many great guitarists in Brazil coming out of a generation of good guitar players. Sometimes I get surprised because I see all these young players, and I say "Oh, my goodness these guys play!" When I talk to them, some of them say they were inspired by me when they were young! I served them as a model and inspiration, and that makes me really happy to hear that. These amazing guitar players, if they got inspiration from me, that's good! At that time of my life I was committed to the guitar because I wanted to share the music.
You have also been recognized with awards for your music for films?
Yes, yes!
In the Company of Fear, I believe?
Exactly, right!
I think you had a Leo Award?
The Leo Award, that was for a documentary.
You are just covering the waterfront there!
Exactly!
I understand you are quite involved in Education programs?
Yes, I am really involved in Music Education. I like the kids to go walking in nature, to look for things to make music out of nature, rocks and any kind of stuff!
One interview from Canada talked about you making music out of pieces of fruit?
Exactly! Rocks, a piece of fruit or wood, the kids find things they can use to make music right in nature!
So you are always listening?
I listen to whatever is in nature, the birds and so many things!
Is there anything else that we should say today?
I think it's good!
I want to thank you very much, Celso, for taking this time in between your busy trips. Thank you for making time!
I really appreciate the support you have given to me, I have always appreciated that, especially for you having such a website with such unique things of people of African descent playing classical music, this is amazing! This is the kind of thing that inspired me. That's why I got so excited about writing Baroque Music!
Really!
Because you mentioned about this Baroque composer, I think it's on your website, you said this guy was a composer in the 1700s!
Yes!
Yes, when I saw that I thought "Oh, my goodness!"
I am happy that you can show people that this influence has been a part of the culture of people of African descent for centuries!
Exactly!
Thank you very much!
Okay!
Goodbye now.
Goodbye.
[Just as Celso Machado speaks of Thierry Rougier as an important influence on his career in classical guitar, a biography of Thierry Rougier at GSPGuitar.com observes that much of his music education came from other guitarists. It says: "One of these influential friends is Brazilian guitarist Celso Machado, with whom he has played and recorded."]
Afro-Brazilian Classical Guitarist
Afro-Brazilian Composer
In the Company of Fear
Canadian Folk Music award
Brazilian Music With Baroque Inspiration
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